On the Yahoo group of my school alumni association, there was recently a vibrant debate on whether or not one should address elders as “Sir”. I thought the debate should be brought out of the closed e-group. So, this post.
To Sir or not to Sir? To Ma’am or not to Ma’am? — This is an issue we all have faced — continue to face — in one way or the other at one time or the other.
When I was in school and college, there was no problem. All teachers and professors were addressed Sir or Ma’am. No second thoughts on any counts.
Trouble started when I got a job. The serious seniors were called Sir and Madam. But there was one among them who told me not call him Sir. I wondered how could he not like being called Sir, and dismissed his request as a pretense to being politically correct. He looked very much the sort of person who would actually enjoy the sound of Sir.
But the next time I Sir-red him, he told me with a stern look and a firm voice, ”Didn’t I tell you not to call me Sir. Just call me (his name)…”. This landed me in a difficult predicament. I couldn’t bring myself to addressing him by his name, and took the easy path of calling him nothing. Anyway, the agony didn’t last long, as he got another job and left.
Then there were a few seniors who were quite friendly, and never threw their weight around as seniors. With them, I discovered that calling them by their name, though initially difficult, was not impossible, with the ice melting very fast.
As I moved gradually to middle level, things were easier. No longer a rank junior, I took the liberty to call most of my immediate seniors by their name.
Other side of sir-ing divide
When I became a senior myself, I discovered that I was on the other side of the Sir-ing divide. It became apparent with the newcomers calling me Sir. Some of them not really junior, but I never made any forceful attempt to change the way they called me. Not because I enjoyed being Sir-ed (I don’t like being called Sir), but I knew with time, Sir will quietly vanish. And it did. All the (then) newcomers, without having to be told, began addressing me by name. I felt good.
But with more time passing, we have had still younger newcomers. Like earlier they have all been calling me Sir. The camaraderie of the work place has broken down the walls of formality. But the Sir-ing has continued. I told them, “Enough of Sir; just all me Pradeep.” But they replied: “Sir, you are so senior, and we are so junior how can we call you by your name!”
I have left it at that, reconciling myself to the fact that I am getting old, and the actual and perceived age difference between me and my juniors is indeed wide. Also, I get an eerie feeling that if I pushed this issue further, out of sheer compulsion, a few of my juniors might reluctantly call me nothing. Imagine, someone unable to call me either as Sir or Pradeep, trying desperately to catch my attention by raising voice, or waving hand, or pushing a paper, or talking out of turn… O, that’s bizarre.
I hope one day — when the perceived age-difference narrows down to a comfortable level, when the junior-senior perception has vanished — they all will call me Pradeep…
Sir and Madam out of courtesy
The usage of Sir and Madam is not restricted to offices. In fact, it is used out of courtesy when talking to a stranger, old or young, unless the person is too young and one might prefer Young Man or Young Girl. In India, very few people use it out of courtesy. We as a nation, in fact, lag quite far behind when it comes to being courteous to strangers. Very rarely there is a Thank you, or a Please, forget Sir or Madam.
There is a school of thought that ascribes Sir and Madam to servility, a legacy of the British Raj. I don’t agree. One can be servile without using Sir and even while using Sir one can be dominating.
Sir and Madam indicate respect, and can often be used in a disarming manner to get an upper hand in an interpersonal situation. In fact, a lot of us, easily resort to Sir or Madam when we have to get something done. So, in government offices or in any such place where we have to speak to someone in power, however disrespectful he or she looks or behaves, we selfishly use Sir or Madam.
Comfort level
So, let us go back to the initial question: To Sir or not to Sir. Is there a thumb rule? Is there a definitive guideline? I doubt if there is.
Sir and Madam do sound quite formal and official. Between strangers when the ice has melted and formality has given way to informality, Sir and Madam also give way to First Name. And, to make it doubly sure, at the earliest opportunity, the issue is settled with “Hope you don’t mind me calling you … (his or her first name).” This will in all likelihood fetch the answer: “Sure… (first name).
How much ever the formality in interpersonal interaction has broken down, a wide difference (actual or perceived) in age can induce a sense of distance between the two persons, forcing the use of Sir or Madam. The perceived age difference can come down with greater interaction over a period of time. Then, mostly Sir and Madam too vanish.
At the end of it all, it’s the comfort level that matters; the comfort level of the junior and the senior; the person who is addressing and the person who is addressed.
Let me end with a quote from a Polish blogger, Anna:
Polish is a very formal language. And people may take offense when they’re not addressed properly. A few months ago I was out with a group of friends and strangers, foreigners and Poles. I chatted with one lady in English, turned out she was Polish, so I switched to Polish. Because in English, I addressed her as “you”, I didn’t even think twice about using the same form in Polish – “ty”. She was my age and we were in a foreign country. Yet, her response was an icy stare and an even icier “Ja z tobą krów nie pasałam” (I didn’t tend cows with you) which is a nasty warning to a person talking to you (me in this case) that he/she has breached the magical Pan/Pani barrier. (More)
I hope you really meant it when you wrote the concluding sentence! 😉
darn..i addressed you as Sir too..oops
but dont you think not using this term of address & coming across as impolite (to the ppl who dislike frankness) is worse than using this title and just mildly annoying a person? 😀
lemme elaborate,in the first case both parties might get hurt,,,the addressee (if he thinks he has been disesteemed) and the speaker (if he is branded as an impolite brat)…in the second case, only the addressee is the aggrieved party, no harm to the speaker as such
PS:
PS: you could have jokingly hinted to me about your dislike for this form of address 😳
@ Raindrops:
Indeed I meant what I wrote. It doesn’t apply to you. Comfort-level or not, you can’t call me Sir. 🙂
@Jinkibachi:
You wrote in the comment something I myself wanted to write. That’s it’s safer to use “Sir” than risk offending someone by not using it. As the say, it’s better to err on the right side. As for your post script, well, I won’t mind, if you addressed me just Pradeep. It’s perfectly okay.
Yes, it has more to do with comfort level. There are other ways of maintaining respect without Sir-ring too, which is good. We young people can learn a lot from this post!
But what about ‘Pradeep Sir’? ha ha..
Anyway, there are two kinds of people whom I always ‘sir’ without fail everytime there is an encounter. Cops and auto drivers. It helps.
@ Debby:
If you ask me, I’d prefer respect without Sir. Even I’m comfortable without sir-ing. But as I mentioned here before, when in doubt it’s better to sir than not to sir.
😡
@ Atul
You bet, at some places sir can indeed work wonders.
I like “SIR” 😉
Sounds great!!!
Very well written article…
@ Anya,
Thank you very much.
Good one, Pradeep.
I like when addressed by first name.
I am not sure if any thumb rule exists, but in uniformed services sir-ring is must.
@Indrani,
Thanks a lot. Ya, that’s right, in uniformed services sir-ing is a must. I studied in a military school. That was one reason why I had no confusion about sir-ing doing school days. Today in many offices, the tendency is to discourage sir-ing.
I want every one to call me sir, except the pretty ladies…ha haa ha. Seriously, in the US, no one calls anyone ‘sir’ except if you are in the army, perhaps.
Thank god I work in an IT company where Sir and Ma’am are a non issue. We call everyone by name…American style…even the CEO! I can imagine your predicament!
@Korula & Anjali,
What I have heard is that even in the US, strangers do address formally. But that formality dissolves in no times, unlike in India. Interestingly, even without Sir-ing or Ma’am-ing in the US, people are courteous and respectful.
here of course people scrupulously avoid calling sir & mam and all that. Mr is sometimes heard, otherwise it is always first name basis.
check this interesting link
http://www.greekchat.com/gcforums/archive/index.php/t-17292.html
and this urban dictionary
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=helo+sir
nowadays it is ‘hello dude’ or ‘what’s up dog’..
My father-in-law, who is a retired teacher, addresses his old students as “sir”. His argument is: they are holding senior positions in their work field. Obviously, students won’t enjoy being sir-ed by their own teacher and they are heard pleading “sir please don’t call me sir”. However, through the conversation both would be ‘sir’ing at each other!!!
🙂 catch 22!
I crossposted this blog on Multiply and I got so many comments. Here are some of them… one by one…
From Vini:
Dear Pradeep Sir,
Enjoyed your blog, Sir. Ha Ha.
As for me, I am not exactly sure what is appropriate while addressing seniors. Over here Sir-ing is rare. People regardless of age call each other by their first names, so that is what I too follow.
But back home, I address many of my elders close to me as chettan or chechi or as uncle or auntie. Also, I add Sir to many names, who I am not very close to but very much senior to me. It’s just a way of showing respect to elders, that’s the culture I grew up with.
When I was studying in TVM, I was really comfortable calling people Sir and no one had a problem with that but when I went to Bangalore to do the internship, I called my boss Nandan as Nandan Sir and it was ridiculed by some folks in that ad agency. They thought I was not fashionable/too traditional/ too formal. My boss didn’t say to me that I shouldn’t be calling him Sir, so I continued to address him as Sir.
From George (comment crossposted from Multiply):
interesting post, even more because, i am one who started calling Pradeep Sir, ‘Pradeep Sir’…
working more than a year with him, made me realise Pradeep Sir is no sir material 🙂 (don’t ge me wrong: what i mean is he is not to be kept at a distance… I keep away from sirs and madams)… but a very friendly person, and always accessible and helpful… and i wanted to shed the sir from Pradeep Sir…
but as explained in his blog and faced by many, i too was caught between the sir and the non-sir worlds… this post won’t end my dilemma…i know that!
From Libby (comment crossposted from Multiply)
Me too….. Have gone through the same dilemma.
I still use a ‘sir’ or ‘ma’am” to keep a ceratin distance and sometimes as a courtesy to strangers.
Though I call my neighbours by their first names, my girls have to address everyone with the prefix Miss or Mr.
Prefer them to ‘uncles’ and `aunties’ any day. And in Delhi, they had corrupted it to ‘undies’. It really gets on my nerves when someone not related to me calls me ‘auntie.’ And I am not talking about my friends’ children. I have reached an age where bus conductors call me ‘auntie’ in Kerala.
This also reminds me of a conversation I had with my mother.
“Why did you name me Liberty? Just imagine when I am old, people calling me Liberty chedathy.”
My mom who is ‘Baby’ at home : “What is your problem. Everybody calls me Baby Chedathy.”
To Sir/Ma’am or not. Indeed a predicament depending on the place and people.
In Indian offices esp. the govt. services it is still considered necessary to address seniors as Sir or Ma’am.
In US too unless the other person insists it isn not considered all okay to call someone by first name. Not always though. In most educationa institutions parents of children have to address teachers as Mr./Ms./Mrs.
I am uncomfortable when my 5 yr old call elders by first name here so I prefer asking people what they prefer. So prefer Mr./Ms. and some prefer first name.
In the end as you said, whatever works best but it is always good to know some basics in a new country. I don’t want a cold stare from a Polish 🙂
Pradeep ‘Sir’, I love this post. Some young bloggers call me Ma’am,no doubt out of respect for my years, and I don’t know how to tell them to drop it!
At my workplace my boss was much younger than me, and he expected to be called by his name – “No formalities here,” he said – and me, out of respect for his position, found it difficult to do so. So like you , I called him – nothing. Later, when I got to know him better, I felt comfortable calling him by name.
I am now used to not using ‘Sirs/Madams’ :), but yes, it is probably best to check 🙂 Atleast, in my workplace – I have probably just referred to 2 people as Sir/Madam – and thats coz I really respected them – calling people by name was quite accepted 🙂
any changes coming ?
In my first job the induction class itself we were told not to call sir/mam and it was not a problem for me to call my seniors, TL’s and even managers by name but at my present job I wonder everybody calls sir/mam, Its sounds weird but seniors do enjoy it, I am in confussion:(
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